Re: A MOD Free World

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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby dislaxxic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:27 pm

Bandito dropped the "C" word in one of the politics threads today. NBD, i guess, except that it seems that he is purposely trying to tear down that whole board into a real flame war...which, as someone who definitely trolled a few political threads back in the George W. Bush administration, i can recognize. Never tried to blow up the board with just plain ugly, ignorant profanity though.

Don't know the answer, but this poster's language is pushing this whole exercise into a whole new place. Kind of reflective of our body politic these days, i guess...

..
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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby admin » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:57 pm

Moved his post to Hamsterdam as well as the other posts with Cs, Fs, Ss, etc. There was a lot. So I ended up moving entire threads. Let's see but, eventually, I think the entire Everything But Lacrosse category will be moved into Hamsterdam. At least the Politics Forum. But, again, let's see.
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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby seacoaster » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:47 pm

I kind of can't believe I'm saying it, but I think a light touch moderating would be beneficial.

I am struck by frmnfan's recent comment that the level of, umm, vigor and the lack of control over tastelessness and language has dragged the Forum on the non-Lacrosse side of things down, provided a disincentive for some to join in. Frmnfan is, for me, a great example: he and I rarely agree on things, but he is steadfastly honest and courteous, and has a point of view that I, in my relative silo, need to hear. I don't want the likes of him and others chased away.

It is true: I enjoy a fan's withering responses to the Trolling. But I think the level of discourse has cheapened and roughened up a little too much to secure and provoke real debates on subjects about which there are real, honest and inevitable disagreements.

I'd appreciate other folks thoughts.
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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby Matnum PI » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:54 pm

Why don't you speak with Frmnfan in the Politics Forum instead of the Hamsterdam Politics Forum?
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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby seacoaster » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:45 pm

Concur with DMac. The issue isn't me conversing with anyone; the issue is that the level of dialogue and discussion is diminished by this single poster. Others will likely follow his lead and increase the level of invective; others will not bother with the board anymore -- the net-net of this doesn't portend good things.

Just my opinion; this isn't the wild west. Or it doesn't have to be. Thanks for listening.
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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby 44WeWantMore » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:10 pm

Not sure I have an answer, but I did want to share this observation:


Q: If someone from the 1950s suddenly appeared today, what would be the most difficult thing to explain to them about life today?

A: I possess a device, in my pocket, that is capable of accessing the entirety of information known to man. I use it to look at pictures of cats and get in arguments with strangers.
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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby 44WeWantMore » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:17 pm

seacoaster wrote:Concur with DMac. The issue isn't me conversing with anyone; the issue is that the level of dialogue and discussion is diminished by this single poster. Others will likely follow his lead and increase the level of invective; others will not bother with the board anymore -- the net-net of this doesn't portend good things.

Just my opinion; this isn't the wild west. Or it doesn't have to be. Thanks for listening.


That is part of the problem with slippery slopes; just when you think you cannot slide any further, you do. How do you draw a line? I sometimes noticed my old LaxPower posts were stealth-edited or completely deleted, and I might have been a bit annoyed, but when I finally quit the Water Cooler, maybe I was wondering if mods were too forgiving (except on my posts, of course).
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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby seacoaster » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:25 pm

Great and interesting article 44. I just think the article conspicuously focuses on one's own slippery slope (e.g., the value of my 1% of principle or my ten minutes of sleep), rather than the sloping ridge of fecal grime that comes from one person's mouth. Editors tend to improve papers and books and fora. Again, my two cents. Maybe we should hear about moderator/moderating criteria?
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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby admin » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:28 pm

1. Bandito, DMac, and Forever, I moved your posts to Hamsterdam. the language is great for Hamsterdam. Not so great for outside of Hamsterdam.

2. If this was a party and someone was puking drunk, that's easy. You have his friends take him home. But what if someone is simply being obnoxious. That's harder to deal with. Puking drunk, easy to deal with. Obnoxious, harder. With this in mind...

3. Just because a goalie started the game, it doesn't mean he'll finish it. If early on, he lets up 5 goals, then another 5, and then another 5, for the benefit of the team, the coach needs to pull him. In Hamsterdam, swear to your hearts delight. Outside of Hamsterdam, do not. In Hamsterdam, feel free to be (within limits) obnoxious. Outside of Hamsterdam, tone it down. Going forward, If you bring your Hamsterdam persona to the Forum at large, that'll be defined as 5 quick goals. Do it again, that's another 5. 10 goals in the first half is not good. But, for the start of the second half, you're still on the field. Until another 5 and then ... You're pulled*. Like spoken to above, some poor behaviors are easier to define than others. But, in time, I'm confident that we'll define all of them. Bottomline, keep the Hamsterdam stuff in Hamsterdam.

* - My current thinking is that all forumites can post anywhere. And when a forumite gives up 5 quick goals, s/he still can post anywhere but... Petro is talking to the Goalie Coach. 5 more goals and the forumite is limited to posts within Hamsterdam. 5 more goals (keep in mind, giving up 5 goals while being limited to Hamsterdam is no small feat) and you're pulled. You're no longer on the field. Your account is deleted.

My name is "Admin". If I let up 5 goals, my name will become "Admin [5 ]". Another 5, my name will be "Admin [5 5 ]". Another 5, my name will be "Admin [5 5 5]". But no one will see it because I'll be off the field.
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Re: A MOD Free World

Postby admin » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:13 am

dislaxxic wrote:In a mod-free world, i guess this makes sense. I feel like it's a shame that we have to have two parallel boards with a bunch of similar/same threads in them...that gets confusing for us old-timers. The reason for it is pretty obviously ONE POSTER who has extreme difficulty with language and attitude. There are plenty of people on here that i have personally jousted with ad nauseum over the years, often in really acrimonious and resentful ways, but the level of comportment NEVER reached the levels it has in the brief time that this person has been posting here at FL. As much as it pains me to admit, i have even occasionally learned things from some of my more consistent tormentors here, no need to name them, i think they know who they are, but in the spirit of discourse, of the kind of back-and-forth that impassioned political discussions that go on around here...i would even admit to a grudging respect for some of my political opponents here.

That's not true, not really possible, with the "nuclear option" approach that this particular poster brings to the place.

You can be...and we have a few examples of it in our number...a Trump supporter without the invective and profanity, no? I find it comes out more in the manner of "If Trump could just do well, the country would be better off" mode...so let's "give it a chance" type of support...are we not giving this ONE POSTER all kinds of power to manipulate the threads with profanity bombs and personal insults mostly every day?

I can't thank Admin enough for all he does for this Board. It obviously wouldn't be here without him. I get (perhaps more than others) the difficulty in trying to moderate a gaggle like this, having interacted with LP mods a bunch and had my share of "holidays" from posting and deleted/edited posts. The whole notion of moderating seems destined to lead to issues with prejudices and notions of propriety that the likes of us - who come here every day to bandy political views and such - could never agree on...BUT...

It seems clear an effort is needed/desired. This situation is dragging down the whole enterprise because of one person, basically. It appears that the proposal will not be remedial, as our troll friend has clearly earned numerous "5s" to date. A personal insult appeared just this morning...

At the end of the day, we're all lacrosse players, right? We line up and shake hands before games, and after games too. That's cause, on a pretty consistent basis, we "Honor The Game". The situation that has brought us to this thread does NOT honor the game we play here at FL, so finding a solution to it will help us all out, IMHO...i think the proposed solution is a start, let's see how it works...

..


Dislax, agreed on all points. Except maybe one. While one post-er stands above the rest, i'm not sure that he's alone. If the personal attacks were all in one direction, this would've been amended a while ago. If he was the only one swearing, being belligerent, etc. But this situation is what it is.

As you spoke to, we can't set rules and then enforce them retroactively. So, we set the rules, make the repercussions clear, and then we can enforce them going forward. Once the people who should be living full-time within Hamsterdam are limited to Hamsterdam, people will vote with their feet where they want to discuss what they want to discuss. Some people like Coke, some people like Pepsi, and some people like Coke with a jigger of rum. To each their own. But with our ability to limit these people to here and those people to both here and there, the people who want a can of Coke will not be forced to have a Coke with rum. (For what it's worth, these rules are not based on my personal tastes, politics, or otherwise. I think these discussions, at least the heated ones, have little to nothing to do with politics. Just because the subject of the post is a democrat/liberal or republican/conservative doesn't mean the post is political.) What we're doing is based on a need to create delineation. There should be a place for all lacrosse fans at our party. But when a belligerent fan or fans is ruining the experience for others, we need to create separate spaces for these two sets of fans. Not a space for liberals and a space for conservatives. A space for people who want Coke and a space for people who want Coke with rum. In other words, for some topics, there may be two threads. But this will only be because people want it that way.
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